White folks have been the beneficiaries of affirmative action for, like, EVER?

Clutch the pearls!

The problem with this piece is that it tries to do to much--you end up tying to take a nuanced approach to both race into quality of performance, and end up not proving either point. Yes there is an obvious disparity in how the black quarterbacks are treated in comparison to white ones; however, this issue could better be explored without tying Favre into the mix. At the same time, you could have done a much better job by giving a more realistic understanding of who Favre was as both a player and a person. As for McNabb, just because Philly is known as "the city of brotherly love" doesn't mean that they are at all respectful to either their players (regardless of race) or opposing teams; just look at the way they treated Allen Iverson and every opposing team that ever comes to the city. So what you should have done is written one column on Favre--giving a nuanced picture of him hat goes beyond just his stat line--and another on McNabb--that explores racial sports politics.

First @ nausherwan - If you watched sportscenter this morning Allen Iverson was met with a very long amount of applause at his return to philly. It wasn't the fans that got rid of Iverson, it was the team management that force him to want to move.

I do feel the McNabb's inflated issues in philly as compared to how Favre's issues have been ignored, might have more to do with the fact that Favre is coming off a very good season and he's retiring now. This contrasts to what would have happened if he retired last year after a terrible season... I'd venture to say the sports writers and press would have be conjuring a much different Brett Favre, if that had happened.

Dave, I think the piece was pretty much on point. Farve has been given the ultimate pass. (excuse the pun). Things he's done, would've had ANY other quarterback gone a long time ago. He seems to be the NFL's "good ol boy" and he relished in it even while hanging on to break records, or the hilarious, take drugs for the team. Whatever, he's gone now.

Maybe you should've used someone else besides McNabb though. As a HUGE Eagles fan, it's not that he's not liked. It's the "image" that he didn't want to embrace, NOW he seems to want to embrace it. What's wrong with being called "running quarterback?" As long as you're calling the signals and taking the snaps what does it matter? Just get the job done with whatever gifts you have. Eagles fans don't want a happy-go lucky clown for a qb, even if it's fake, leadership needs to be displayed. When we want comedy, we turn the channel, when you pay good money to be at a game, you want to see each player give their all... even if they have to scramble up 75 yards rushing to their 198 yards passing, as long as they win!

Love your articles man!

Nausherwan nails it. Media adulation of Favre is unique -- it goes well beyond white sportswriters' general affection for enthusiastic white players. That's why Dave's column rings kind of hollow.

I've decided that Brett Favre is sports' answer to John McCain. But where McCain buys media loyalty with booze and barbeque, Favre simply gave them access. When he was battling addiction, he talked about it publicly. When his wife was diagnosed with cancer, he talked about it. All those times he was going to retire, he talked about it.

While the media digs the Favre narrative -- Mississippi kid excelling on the Frozen Tundra -- it's really the access that has them so completely in the tank for No. 4. No other athlete is this open with them, so they're loyal to Favre like they are no one else.

My recollection of the superbowl win that Farve was around for, is that Green Bay won the game on kick returns, not passing.

Seen from a television perspective, Farve does seem very likeable.

Thanks for the comments thus far. Just a couple responses: the McCain comparison is constructive and it proves my point. Some of the media love, Neil, is certainly about gratitude for access, but it's also their love for the flawed hero: the archetype, the tough guy with some scars who has made his share of mistakes, but lives to fight another day. My point is that this archetype in sports, and politics as well for that matter, seems reserved for whites only.

That's why I disagree with Nausherwan that this should have been two columns. That's not to say I succeeded in doing this, but the comparison is critical. McNabb is a flawed player with tons of heart and ability, a winner in a league with absolutely putrid quarterback play. In Philly, his flaws are magnified while in Green Bay Favre was deified.

In struggle and sports
Dave Z

As a Wisconsinite I'll try to take off my green and gold blinders....But I can't argue nor disagree with much of this, if you want to compare the treatment of Farve in the media with many other players espeically non-white who do not 'toe the line' the difference is obvious. Is this the players fault though? Or Media? They after all control the narative.

Re: Mark and Favre's performance in S.B. Your recollection sucks.

-64 yr TD pass to Andre Rison Secon play from Scimmage
-record setting 81-yd Antonio Freeman TD (At the time a record)
-One rushing touchdown
-3 TD's total no interceptions.

So it was a little more than special teams

i'm mostly relieved that the hbo advertisement got bumped. even better it was a packer slam. no packer is great ,or even good, they all are cheese eating cow tippers. we may admire the packers' un-corporate structure, but it is really by default, as green bay is basically america's bunghole. bear down!

Brett Favre was shear genius in the film, "Something About Mary"

The Favre/McNabb comparison fails on so many levels I don't know where to start. First, McNabb can't stay healthy. Second, he tanked in his biggest game. Third, his career stats will never begin to approach Favre's. Fourth, Favre has only played with one elite receiver in his career: Sterling Sharpe. Favre was truly remarkable this year without a proven running back until Grant finally emerged and two undersized receivers who are not exactly named Moss or Owens. I agree with Zinn that there is racism in this country. I believe that Obama has been victimized by it and that it is vile. I also agree that black quarterbacks have to do a little bit more to succeed. But please, leave Favre out of this. He was great by any standard. I watched his entire career. He has not had the talent around him that Tom Brady has or Peyton Manning. The reason people love Favre is because he always played his heart out, and yes he did turn water into wine on several occasions. Everyone talks about Favre's 288 interceptions, but Unitas threw 253, Marino 252 and Elway threw 226. Unitas's interception percentage rate was 4.9, Favre's 3.3, Elway's 3.1 and Marino's 3.0. When writer's like Zinn attempt to make a profound point about racism, which is endemic in America, by utilizing a bad sports analogy it merely trivializes the point. When there are people like Rush Limbaugh openly calling Obama a halfrican or Bill O'Reilly marveling at how he discovered that black people don't order the m'fing tea at restaurants or where our president allows people to drown in New Orleans, calls out his private army Blackwater to shoot at blacks in the street and refuses to rebuild the city so that blacks can have their homes back, I'm amazed that anyone would use Favre to make a point about race. Stick to sports, Zinn. And as you were so far off on the purely sports angle of your argument, maybe you should try your hand at something else.

Let's face it, the world we live in is dominated by white people, who have the clout to do whatever they feel like. They own everything, and I sometimes think that, by their behavior, they believe themselves to be above reproach. Facts are that people like Donavan McNabb are just a commodity to these people, who are looking to make a buck out of his performances. They have no emotional linkages to people who are unlike themselves. So Brett Favre, who is a great quarterback, may not always ba all star quality, in summary, but contrasted against someone you have no emotional attachment to, you recognize more the value of one you have a bond with.
I see the parallel in the Democratic race. Here we have a black man who has been the inspiration of many up against a white establishment figure. Had he been white the race would have been over by now. Yet the race continues, and the media plays along, perhaps with the hope that some bombshell will cause his downfall. They discovered something that they have been smearing him with for days. He's guilty by association with someone significant in his life, yet other candidates having worse connections are'nt scrutinized and villified to the same degree.
Life is what it is, basically unfair to the weak and the lowly, and there is more hatred in the hearts of those who inflict pain and suffering than those against whom the hatred is directed.

Let's face it, the world we live in is dominated by white people, who have the clout to do whatever they feel like. They own everything, and I sometimes think that, by their behavior, they believe themselves to be above reproach. Facts are that people like Donavan McNabb are just a commodity to these people, who are looking to make a buck out of his performances. They have no emotional linkages to people who are unlike themselves. So Brett Favre, who is a great quarterback, may not always ba all star quality, in summary, but contrasted against someone you have no emotional attachment to, you recognize more the value of one you have a bond with.
I see the parallel in the Democratic race. Here we have a black man who has been the inspiration of many up against a white establishment figure. Had he been white the race would have been over by now. Yet the race continues, and the media plays along, perhaps with the hope that some bombshell will cause his downfall. They discovered something that they have been smearing him with for days. He's guilty by association with someone significant in his life, yet other candidates having worse connections are'nt scrutinized and villified to the same degree.
Life is what it is, basically unfair to the weak and the lowly, and there is more hatred in the hearts of those who inflict pain and suffering than those against whom the hatred is directed.

McNabb has faced a lot of challenges in his career: racism, injuries, sub-par receivers, playing in Philadelphia. I'd like to read that story.

I think you completely miss Favre's appeal; aside from his talent, he is charismatic and open. When he came out about his drug problem he joked that MVP stood for "more Vicodin please". Even in his 15th season he was having as much fun playing football as a high school player, he was a joy to watch.

There were murmurs that he should retire over the past few years as he had less success with a lesser supporting cast, but he came back to have one of the best seasons of his career. If he hadn't done so the response to his retirement would've been a whole lot different. But the fact remains that he was a unique player.

It would be great to see McNabb return to the top of his game, too. That racism has contributed to the criticism he's received is undeniable, but to attribute the recent chorus of praise for Favre as the flip side of that is simply not accurate.

D Nice :

1997 superbowl MVP - kick returner Desmond Howard.

D Nice :

1997 superbowl MVP - kick returner Desmond Howard.

Great article. As an Eagle fan, I think the comparison to Mcnabb is absolutely right on. I have always been conflicted about Favre because he is very fun to watch, his streak is remarkable and you never know what will happen when he throws the ball. I have been conflicted because, as a diehard eagles and Mcnabb fan, I have thought for awhile that he deserves close to the same adulation in Philly. The fans and media are responsible, as the national media seem to love to specualte on controversy with mcnabb. He can go 27 for 33 with 3 td's and a pick, and all the announcers tlak about are the pick. That never happens with Favre, even when the interceptions are just horrible. I like Bret Favre and I wish people would react to Mcnabb and other black quarterbacks and athletes similarly, just like I wish people would treat pacman jones the way they treat Jon Daly.. This article could have been about Daly too.

Mark-Who cares about MVP, Who had more TD's that game Favre passing or Howard returning? So vamoose to your statement...."My recollection of the superbowl win that Farve was around for, is that Green Bay won the game on kick returns, not passing"
-----

jerry Bischoff basically said everything I was going to. Let me just add that while Farve had some excellent teammates, he only played with one other HOF'r, Reggie White. Also perhaps part of McNabb's problem was that he played in Philadelphia, where the fans seem to take great pride in their nastiness. And just how does Zirin know that Favre "wouldn't have lasted" in Green Bay if he were black? Lots of black free agents have had no problem coming to or staying in Green Bay.

Frankly, I'm not sure Donovan McNabb, who, incidentally is probably the most thoughtful and articulate QB ever to play in the NFL on the "star" level. is the right person with whom to compare Favre (okay, Cal Ripken-esque, but what else?). I think NOW, with all the fawning and adulation, it's time to bring up the Favre-Marino comparisons, especially since Brett probably hung on as long as he did so he could break some of Dan's records.

Where to begin?

Has any football player ever been black listed for legal pain killers? Anyone?

Phillly fans didn't Boo Donovan McNabb on draft day because he was black, they booed him because they wanted Ricky Williams.

Drafting Kolb was a slight to McNabb? Are the Eagles supposed to ignore his history of injuries? How about Green Bay drafting Rodgers?

The whole comparison is just ridiculous. McNabb is a good QB, but Farve is in a different class. Aside from being the iron man, and breaking all those passing records, Farve also won the big one, something McNabb has been unable to do. And while Farve certainly deserves his reputation for being a gunslinger, McNabb has earned a reputation as a guy who chokes in big games. He was awful in his first three NFC Championship games, and threw 3 picks in the super bowl.

It has only been mentioned briefly in the comments - and not in the article at all - that the real issue fans have with McNabb is that he cannot stay healthy. If he strung together 100 consecutive games (never mind 253) he would be treated like a hero too.

if Favre played in Philly and lost playoff games like he did in GB then he'd be booed out of there just like McNabb is. The problem is that the media reporting this uses no actual insight or football knowledge to assess either situation. For McNabb they ignore the numbers and success and jump on the anti-McNabb bandwagon. For Favre they ignored his recent struggles and the 2 playoff losses that he personally lost for his team in order to make a saint out of Favre.

And don't discount race here either. The drug situation is quite important. We have a league that regularly suspends player for smoking marijuana (which can ease pain) yet when Bret Favre gets addicted to Vicotin its ok (even after he admits to using it for recreational use)

Rickey Williams lost multiple seasons and the Dolphins were decimated because of the league's anti-drug policy concerning marijuana. Imagine the uproar if Favre was suspended for abusing Vicodin (which he admitted doing).

Cmon - you can't compare the receiving corps Farve has had in GB with McNabb. To say all Farve has had is Sterling Sharpe is silly. Antonio Freeman, Robert Brooks, Donald Driver... all big time players. Also Farve played with three pro bowl caliber tight ends: Keith Jackson, Mark Chmura and Bubba Franks. McNabb never has had anything liek this. Yes, McNabb has had injury issues, but he also has been the closest thing to a one man team, getting beaten up - and tough enough to throw multiple touchdowns one game on a broken leg. If Philly sends him packing, they will regret it.

I do agree that, to an extent, Favre was almost the football version of the Great White Hope (see Hansborough, Tyler). However, I don't think the comparison to McNabb flies for a couple of reasons. The main reason is that Philadelphia and Green Bay are two different cities. Philly truly idolizes very few athletes--they may love them for a time, but only until the next interception nor strikeout. These are the guys who booed Mike Schmidt, after all. In Green Bay, however, the fans are going to adore anyone who excels for a long time, no matter what their faults are. It almost reminds me, living in Cincinnati, of Pete Rose. Favre has nowhere near the fault sof Rose, but we in Cincy still adore the guy, partly because he was so human. Maybe the other reason was indeed becase of the injuries--but it's hard to blame McNabb for getting hurt more often than Favre. Overall, would Favre have gotten the same treatment from the national media if he was black? I doubt it. But I don't think the comparison to McNabb flies, either.

you're pretty lucky this site hasn't been overloaded w/ the packer nation leaving comment after comment.

keep in mind this is from someone who's seen every single packer game from 1988 until now. favre made those receivers. make no mistake about that. robert brooks was fragile and average (only 2 1000+ yd seasons). freeman had 2 good years until we signed him to a big deal and he decided he didn't care anymore. and neither had any career outside of gb and their careers weren't very long. i'll concede driver is pretty good. but you also have to keep in mind that your 4 examples are over a 16 year period, with driver being the only one who was good for more than 2 years. and i'd like to add bubba franks completely sucks, and has done so his whole career, though he was good at catching 2 yard td passes early in his career.

you're neglecting - which is fine given the mammoth amounts of favre adulation - that in 16 years the packers had only ONE losing season. since favre is the biggest reason for this, it's easy to understand why most think he can do no wrong. and you also probably aren't aware how putrid the franchise was in the 70's and 80's.

"If Favre were black, there’s not a snowball’s chance in Kiln, Miss., he would’ve lasted in Green Bay."

while i sometimes have a low opinion of my fellow packer-loving brothers and sisters, i can guarantee that if favre were black, and had the same career he had, it wouldn't make any difference. at all. none. you're assumption is completely wrong unless you're inferring that all packer fans are a bunch of racists

i'm actually a big mcnabb fan but comparing him to favre the way you did doesn't really come off as a well reasoned argument

i am a tried and true packer fan, from a long line of 'em - when my grandmother had heart surgery, her doctor told her she couldnt watch the pack that season, for fear her pacemaker would crash - but she obviously watched anyway. that said...

in response to jason, however, there is no way in hell a black QB would be idolized in green bay (or wisconsin) the way favre is, and in some part i think that is amplified by the legacy of favre himself.

first let's get some demographics out there: brown county (where green bay is located) is 1.7% black, in a state that is only 6% black (concentrated almost entirely in 5 counties - dane, kenosha, racine, milwaukee, and brown). i think these statistics do a lot to support sicnarfe's point about emotional attachment - the majority of white wisconsinites do not come into contact with a black person on a daily (or, honestly, even yearly) basis.

let's spend a moment on favre... we can debate his stats forever, but there's no doubt he is and will always be worshipped in the state of wisconsin. an entire generation (mine, if i'm being honest) doesn't have memory of the pack without brett. the "favre 4 president" signs are not entirely un-serious: i think favre could easily win a mayoral race in green bay, and could have a pretty decent run at governor (i dont think anyone living in wisconsin can deny this, as ridiculous as it is - green and gold negates blue and red - and we've already had tommy thompson). is this stupid? absolutely. but why is it valid? b/c brett is our leader. packer fans have spent the last decade+ sitting down every sunday wondering what HE will do - everyone else is supporting cast, brett's the star (even reggie white, the "minister of defense" to favre's president, in the minds of most fans).

it's not at all unfounded to connect electoral politics to the pack here. green bay does not have a single black elected official, and last i checked, not even a black police officer or firefighter. am i saying green bay is racist, jason? absolutely - just like wisconsin and america are. would favre, or any other QB, have his status in green bay if black? no, b/c we will not see a black QB in green bay. because wisconsinites (and especially those in green bay, whose blood runs green and gold the thickest) expect their QB to be a leader above all else, even more so after favre's run. and black people are not leadership material in GB (i do recognize that obama won the democratic primary in brown county, however that was with only about 2000 votes, .8% of the population - brown county is overwhelmingly conservative)

black athletes WORKING for a white QB? absolutely - that is definitely how favre's relationship with his black teammates is viewed by most wisconsin packer fans. does it work the other way around? no - green bay will not see a black man as 'leader of the pack'

i don't really care about your statistics. if you know anything about packer fans at all you'd know they put far less thought in who they elect than following they're beloved team. so it doesn't really matter.

favre's easily a top 10, if not 5, all-time qb. if he had the exact same career (only one losing season, super bowl ring, 3 mvp's, perennial pro bowler, #1 all-time in just about every statistical category - all over 16 years) and was black you don't think the fans would have backed him? please.

as racist as some fans are (openly or not), they hold special places for packer players in their intolerant little hearts. this is the same fan-base that mourned when ahman green, a wife-beater, left in free agency because he put up big #'s. the same fan-base who welcomed andre rison, a renowned dead beat father, so long as he helped win a super bowl. the same fan-base who still loves nick barnett even though he punched a woman (in gb no less). the same fan-base whose schools make their kids sing ridiculous songs celebrating the most marginal of players (black or not).

it's all about production and winning. if a black player produces, he's instantly loved. please give an example to prove this otherwise. if a white player produces, a la aaron kampman, he's really loved. kinda racist. but he sure ain't the brett favre of defensive ends.

are black players held to a different standard? absolutely. if aj hawk were black they'd be calling for his head right now (he's been a total bust thus far yet still gets the kid gloves treatment). and i still feel ray rhodes, even though his one season as head coach was a disaster, got a raw deal in part because he was black. if he were successful, though, fans probably wouldn't have a problem with the pack being led by a black man.

favre is one of the best to ever play his position, a surefire 1st ballot hof'er. black or not, fans would still love him. i will admit, though, they wouldn't want a black brett favre for mayor).

and i don't know if you pay attention at all to ted thompson, but he doesn't give a flying f##k what the fans want - if he wants a black qb, a black qb he'll have. but the fans won't mind if he can play.

First off, the reason Ray Rhodes was fired from GB as HCoach was that he was not a good coach, not because he was black. Just because a coach fails, and is black, doesn't mean he was fired because of being black.
Under Rhodes, the discipline of the team, primarily with the younger, had just about fallen apart. Ron Wolf was aware of this, saw what the future held with Rhodes as HC, and acted on that vision.
Second, just because GrBay has a small black population doesn't mean it's a racist city. Last I checked Mississippi has a large black population but I don't think the state is exactly a paragon of progressive race relations.
Third, I'm probably a bigger of McNabb than Favre, simply because of Brett's penchant at times for making the big mistake. But if McNabb were in Green Bay I think he'd be held to the same standards as Favre, except in the sense of the personality and leadership qualities that Favre, imo, has shown but that McNabb has not, if only because McNabb is a much quieter sort of person. Nothing wrong with that.
Fourth, the comparison of John Daly and Pack
Man Jones is absurd. Last I looked Daly wasn't playing shoot 'em up with his homies and putting a man in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. Nor was Daly seen in police custody trying to look tough with a toothpick hanging out of his mouth- Now there's a fine example for young black males to look up to.
I've heard it said that part of our problem is that blacks see racism where it isn't, and whites don't see it where it is. Agreed.
But let me ask this-alright, let's assume it is true that if Favre were black he wouldn't have lasted in Green Bay. Ok, and? What's the point?
That racism is alive and well in America? And?

this is not even worthy of comment...well, beyond this comment

If what you say is true (which it isn't) re the Favre-not-lasting-in-GB-if-he-were-black idiocy, then by the same standards one might say that if you weren't white you wouldn't last as a sportswriter. That true, Zirin?
Why don't you come to Green Bay, see how open the people there really are to people of all colors-
(in case you're not aware, which you probably are not, Green Bay has a fairly large per capita population of Asian, Native American, and Hispanic people, although the percentage of African Americans is, admittedly small.
We all seem to get along quite well, thanks.),

Then, accompany me on one of those Lambeau Field tours, so that I can separate you from the tour group and beat the shit out of you.

let's get some demographics out there: brown county (where green bay is located) is 1.7% black, in a state that is only 6% black (concentrated almost entirely in 5 counties - dane, kenosha, racine, milwaukee, and brown). i think these statistics do a lot to support sicnarfe's point about emotional attachment - the majority of white wisconsinites do not come into contact with a black person on a daily (or, honestly, even yearly) basis
-----
You left one important point out, southeast WI comprises 37% of the states population. The rest you're dealing with farm communities or small towns ...GB being one of the small towns. These are basically two different wisconsins.

Other than that, from Zirin's last comment down there's way too many broad generalizations going on without weighing all the variables involved in the issue.

-Whoever thought Favre would be such a contentious issue.

While I do agree that the piece is flawed, only a fool would suggest it has no merrit. I don't care how 'diverse' your city is, Black quarterbacks are more scrutanized than white quarterbacks. Warren Moon should've retired an Oiler/Titan. Steve McNair, too. Over the last few years of his careed, up until this past season, Favre was 'Wizards Jordan'--showed flashes of the past, but he wasn't the same beast.

There may be no bigger Favre Mark than myself outside of Wisconson, but if he were black, he'd have retired this season as a Washington Redskin.

I'll preface what I am about to say with this:
I am a 20-year old, white, Packers fan. But as a fan of the league and QB's, I also have a McNabb jersey. I'd like to think I am unbiased, but you all may disagree.

I feel the MAIN reasons McNabb is not as loved in Philadelphia as Favre is in Green Bay is simple:

The Philly fans are notoriously jaded and pessimistic by nature, while the Packer fans have the reputation of kind and warm people, doing it all in the name of their small town. And while I am a huge fan of McNabb, let's let these facts speak:

McNabb: 1 Super Bowl appearance, 0 Championships, 0 MVPS, consistently injured.
Favre: 2 Super Bowl appearances, 1 Championship, 3 MVPS, never missed a start.

Do I think race plays a part in everything in this world, of course. But I think Phily fans are more worried about winning than anything. Drafting a QB is a smart football decision if you can't rely on your starter to stay healthy for an entire season, is it not? That's what Philly did; just to cover their asses in the position by making a sound FOOTBALL decision.

If McNabb were a Packer, would I be worried about the future? Yes. All I want to know is that the position will be taken care of, and if we need a young pup in there incase the starter goes down, so be it.

Another point: if Favre were black and had the exact same career as he did, would he not be praised in the black community as well for the drug problems and coming back to the top? Just a thought...

Interesting, as usual.

One does need to point out, when dealing with the media aspect of Favre's career, the unique size of Green Bay.

The population is only 100,00.
The entire county just over 226,000

Small pond, big fish.
This no doubt influences national media coverage.

I like that Zirin pointed out McNabb's record 2004 stat.

Also, I agree with another person above that Favre's best receiver was Sterling Sharpe.
It may be cliche, but if injury had not ended his career Sharpe would have been headed for the HoF. Easily in the top 10 receivers of the SB era.


wow.
i just read some more responses.
particularly by some guy named "jeff"
what an ass, to say it nicely.

I think it is quite amusing as to how many admit, even on this reply section of this article, that racism is alive and well and this country... but when the question/issue of racism is placed in the context of sports and specifically the great white hope that is brett favre the issue can be side stepped and brushed aside...


I am a football fan and have been all my life...

Brett Favre... made for great TV. His enthusiasm for the game was unprecedented for someone who was so revered/accomplished. It was refreshing to see him enjoy the game so much...

But to not see the existence/presence of white privilege throughout his career when compared to other non-white QBs is apocryphal.


But... White privilege (like any other advantage) is hard to see when you are the beneficiary.

carp is what this is.....what is this a Rid'n Dirty Rev Wright site?

I think you have overlooked a marked example of packers respect and affection for a black player - that was Reggie White. He had fans in tears at his death and he has been remembered since as a most admired member of Packer History.

Dave:

I write this not to make comparison for two reasons. One is that I like & respect both of those great athletes & two, I haven't the comparative knowledge to make a decent judgment. I think one of your commentators suggested that Favre (& when will someone tell that man he spells his name wrong) May have played this last season in hopes of a winning one. I am happy that he did, no matter the heartbreaking conclusion.

By the way, I've recently learned from a mutual friend--& tutor of yours, Peter Rachleff--that I'd been mispronouncing your name. It is NOT Zeerin, but Zyerin. He caught me reading an article of yours in The Anderson Valley Advertiser & told me of his connection.

I think you mentioned that McNabb had injury problems because of a porous front line. The Minnesota Vikings had a quarterback who learned how to survive such a drawback by inventing his version of the scramble. He didn't always look pretty but he survived long enough to appear in three Superbowls, albeit, alas, without the attainment of the coveted ring. He also lasted long enough to be included in the Hall of Fame & Have his number 10 retired.

One last thing before your lips get tired. The only remaining purple people-eater that is not in the Hall of Fame but I think definitely belongs there is Jim Marshall. I forget how many consecutive game he played in but he was recognized as one of the 'Iron Men' of football. I'd be interested in your take on that.

I've read your books & recommend them to anyone who brings up sports.

Dennis Jones